Rachel: Hey, Wani, welcome to the show.

Wani: Thank you for having me, Rachel.

Rachel: Well, let’s dive in. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do.

Wani: I help entrepreneurs and organizations navigate change and move into whatever is next for them—whether that is a new endeavor for an organization or an individual.

I’m also an intellectual-property and business-law attorney. I’ve been practicing for a little over two decades—22 years, actually. I’m a speaker and an author as well, so I do a little bit of everything: speaking, practicing law, and change management.

Rachel: Amazing. Tell us the story. How did you get into all of that?

Wani: Law has always been the path for me. My background is West African—my father was the former Minister of Finance for Liberia—and in sub-Saharan African culture, there are only a few professions you are encouraged to pursue. You are either a lawyer, a doctor, working in government, or an accountant.

There is always a push toward medicine first, but I never liked medicine.

Rachel: My mom is a nurse.

Wani: For me, law was a natural fit because of my father. I lived a diplomatic life because of his position, so law felt very familiar. I thought I would only ever be an attorney.

But on New Year’s Eve in 2010 or 2011, I decided not to go out with my friends. I stayed home to look at my life, pray, and ask for change. Three days later, signs about Paris started appearing everywhere in my world in Miami.

About a year later, I sold my condo, gave my things to charity, and moved to Paris. I did not know one person, did not speak one word of French, and had no Plan A, B, C, or D. I was simply following the direction I felt was sending me there.

It was in Paris that I became a speaker, did a TEDx talk, and began writing books. That is how it all started.

Rachel: I had a similar story. God told me to go to Africa, and I was like, “I don’t know anyone there. I don’t know what to do.” But when you have that word from the Lord, you are obedient and you go. Then you watch so many beautiful things unfold from that decision and obedience.

What did that look like for you?

Wani: For me, it was magical—but I am always careful to tell people: you are encouraged to jump, but you will fall. It was not as if I arrived in Paris and spent my life drinking champagne, eating croissants, and enjoying the city.

I lost all of my clients. At the time, I was practicing securities law and had dependable, established clients—publicly traded companies. I did not know what I was supposed to do in Paris. I was not going to take another bar exam in a language where I could not even say bonjour.

It became a season of surrender and a complete reworking of what abundance meant. It meant truly trusting with no clear path, while things were falling apart. For the first two years, the most triggering question someone could ask me was, “Wani, what are you doing in Paris?” I would say, “I have no idea. I’m just here. God sent me to go.”

I had sold my apartment and had nothing. I was losing so much that my brother would say, “This little Paris thing you’re doing—let’s have an intervention. Come back home.” And I would say, “There is no home.”

I did not have the full picture. I only knew I was being guided, even though I did not know what the path would look like. In my thirties, I was reading children’s ABC books in French. That was deeply humbling as a lawyer. I had been driving a Porsche and had a condo in Miami, and suddenly I was learning how to say my ABCs in French.

Rachel: I was watching Little Angel en français with my daughter and thinking, “Oh, I’m learning something.” It’s humbling.

So what I’m hearing is that your obedience did not automatically lead to the promise. There were tests and trials after the obedience, before you experienced the promise. Does that sound accurate?

Wani: One hundred percent. The journey did not make sense for years. It was not until I did a TEDx talk in Ireland that things began to take shape. I began to see that I was not only supposed to be a lawyer—I was meant to be on stages, write books, make speeches, and create greater impact.

I was being shown that being only a lawyer was too small of a path, or too small of a box, for my next iteration. But it was hard. There were many moments of loneliness. No matter how many expats try to sell you a pretty picture of Paris, I know better because I have lived it. It was rough, but it was beautiful too.

What remained clear through the difficulty was that, even when I could not explain it to other people, I was being guided.

Rachel: Everything is difficult in France. We lived there for two years. You cannot get a bank account until you have an apartment, but you cannot get an apartment until you have a bank account. How do you do this?

So I understand—the paperwork, the legalities, all of it. It is not just a shiny life of drinking cappuccinos and eating good food.

Wani: Exactly. I knew nothing about it. I was constantly in survival mode—not necessarily because I did not have enough money, but energetically. I would think, “Where is my next home going to be? I’m only in this place for two weeks.”

Then I was being awakened at two in the morning to write books—books no one was paying me to write. I was thinking, “You took away my clients. I do not have a place to live. I’m looking for a home every two weeks, and You want me to write a book? It is isolating, and it takes all my time.”

But looking back, I always say: the test is also the testimony. You are not being punished. It is for your purification.

Rachel: Say that again. The test is for your testimony, and you are not being punished. It is for your purification. Why is that process necessary?

Wani: Because the old version of you has to die off—the life you had planned for yourself, your beliefs, and the way you thought it was all supposed to happen. God has a bigger way. He can see much better for you than you can see for yourself.

For example, I always wanted to live in Italy. I have an affinity for Italian culture. But God said, “No, go to France.” I did not know anything about France. It made no sense to me. Yet now I have the best of both worlds. I go to Italy all the time, but France was the path for me.

Rachel: I cannot imagine how hard it was not knowing French. At least I had conversational French, and my husband is from Senegal and had lived in France for four years, so he understood the system. I cannot imagine doing it alone without speaking the language.

Wani: I did not find French people difficult—I found the system difficult. The people were very kind to me, and they still are. But if I could do it again, I would not do it the same way, because I did not know anything.

When you are in it, you are just doing it. My resilience mantra became, “It’s not working is not an option.” There was no home in Miami for me to move back to. Could I have gone to my mom’s or dad’s house? Of course. But that was not in me. It had to work, and I had to stick it out.

I remember learning how to wash my clothes for the first time—typing the French instructions into my computer so I could translate how to use the machine. Imagine that: a lawyer trying to figure out a washing machine. It was one of the most humbling things ever.

But I appreciate the journey now. My French friends even tell me, “You are more French than French people.”

Rachel: We were literally just there, and I miss it. My daughter wants to move there now, and I’m like, “I don’t know. We’ll see.”

So what did moving from the testing into the promise look like?

Wani: It was still hard, but there were moments of bliss too. The more I fully put myself into it, the more things began to shift. I realized I had one foot in France and one foot out. I was not fully committed, and I was creating some of the friction myself.

It was hard to let go of Miami because I had a full life there—friends, events, community. In Paris, I had nothing but beauty. I could not even call my friends and complain because they would say, “Do not call me complaining—you are in Paris by the Eiffel Tower.”

But I had a strong conviction about the spiritual path I was on. I saw miracles that reminded me I was on the right path and needed to keep going. I did not know where it would lead, but even in the mess, there was beauty.

If I was going to be upset, sad, or hungry, I would rather do it in Paris.

Rachel: I get that. What would you say to someone listening who is in that messy middle? They have said yes, but they have not experienced the promise yet.

Wani: It is coming. It really is coming. It is part of the process, and you are much closer than you think.

I found that the messier it became, the closer I was to a breakthrough. But you also have to recognize that your resistance may be making it messier. If you could fully surrender—give it all and allow yourself to be held by what you cannot yet see—it could begin to form more quickly.

We are control freaks. Our ego, mind, and subconscious can keep us from fully giving ourselves to what we cannot see. I am not sugarcoating it. I have been there. But you have to find something that gets you through.

For me, it was repeating the name of God. It was not necessarily a Bible verse. My teacher gave me a melody, and I would repeat the name of God. After an hour, everything would dissolve. I still do that today.

Rachel: I love it. Can we talk a little bit about the legal side of business?

Wani: Yes, one hundred percent.

Rachel: What are some of the biggest mistakes you see online coaches and creators making?

Wani: First, people put off legal protection. They will invest $50,000 or $100,000 in a coach’s latest program, but they will not invest in a trademark.

People think that because they create something, they automatically own it. That is not always true. Look at your favorite artists—many do not own their music catalogs.

So the biggest mistake is waiting until it is too late. People do not invest in legal because it does not feel like it produces an immediate return. You see money going out, but you do not see money coming back in. You do not realize it is necessary until there is a problem.

Rachel: It is an investment that does not feel like it brings a return. You see the money go, but you do not see an immediate result—and you do not know if it was necessary until something goes wrong.

Wani: Exactly. I had never really thought about it that way because, for me, it is obvious. I come from a corporate background, where attorneys and legal teams are seen as strategic partners and integral to success.

Show me a very wealthy person, and I will show you multiple attorneys they have on retainer. It is a given. But I understand now why entrepreneurs hesitate.

The biggest issue is intellectual property. People are putting content on 85 different platforms, but they do not have a trademark. Then they are surprised when people steal their work and try to sell it.

If you do not have the legal structure that holds the business together, it can all fall apart.

Rachel: What can that look like? What have you seen?

Wani: In high-ticket masterminds, I have seen people take the frameworks a coach teaches and create a copycat version of that person’s work. The line gets blurred between the coach’s material and what someone else begins selling as their own.

I have seen people in the audience literally steal an entire coach’s modality. There is a lot of intellectual-property theft, a lot of misrepresentation, and people making income claims with no one asking questions.

There is also non-enforcement of contracts and fraudulent chargebacks. Someone joins a community, receives the full program and delivery, then goes to PayPal and says, “I never received the product.”

Merchant processors often lean toward the consumer, especially because they may not view the coaching industry as a traditional business. That is why coaches need their legal ducks in a row. Do not use AI-generated contracts or copy documents from someone else’s website.

Contracts are how you get paid—whether you need to enforce them in court, defend against a chargeback, or simply fulfill the terms. Yet they are often the most important document people do not take seriously. They want them cheap, short, and “feminine.”

Rachel: People ask for a feminine contract?

Wani: Yes. They ask, “Can you write me a feminine contract?” And I say, “Ma’am, no. Absolutely not.”

There is a way to create a contract that reflects your brand, but it still has to protect you. I see this especially with women entrepreneurs. Some people want to be nurturing, heart-centered, and free—but they do not give themselves the protection they need.

Corporate environments are structured for a reason: that structure is part of why they are profitable. You can still be heart-centered and generous while running your business like Microsoft—a well-oiled machine with clear systems and protections.

A freedom-based lifestyle does not mean you should have freedom-based legal parameters.

Rachel: I had a $5,000 chargeback through PayPal. We tried to fight it and lost, even though we overdelivered. What would you suggest in circumstances like that?

Wani: First, make sure your program-delivery system tracks metadata. You need records showing that someone logged into your program, downloaded materials, watched content, or accessed what they purchased. You can often see their watch time and usage data.

Second, your contract needs to be strong. As part of your onboarding process, follow up your welcome email by sending the terms and conditions again. Highlight key sections about refunds, chargebacks, and intellectual property, and have clients acknowledge them.

Your terms and conditions should also be visible across your business: on your website, in your marketing, and throughout your social-media sales process. Then, if you need to respond to PayPal, you have clear documentation to present.

Your chargeback response should be written like a legal brief. Ideally, have an attorney respond, because we know what processors are looking for. Do not rely on a pile of casual screenshots that say, “Hey love,” or “Hey baby.” You are running a business; treat your client as a client.

Rachel: I have clients who have done that and lost chargeback claims.

Wani: Exactly. There is this tension people create between being nurturing and operating professionally. But you are a business. Make sure you have your documentation in order and can pull the usage data from your platform.

When you welcome people into a program, send the actual contract again and have them sign it. A check-box agreement can still be legally binding, but I prefer an actual signed agreement, even if it is electronic.

Rachel: What should we make sure to trademark?

Wani: Start with your business name. Before you name your business, make sure it is something you can potentially trademark. When you get an idea for a name, do a preliminary search on the USPTO website to see whether it is available. It is not a complete legal clearance, but it is a good place to start.

If you find something identical or very close in your industry, do not use that name. If the name looks clear, register the name of your business.

You should also trademark your signature program—the offer you are known for and the thing that makes you money. The intellectual property connected to it may be more valuable than a single launch. Anything that is generating significant revenue should be protected.

And do not forget your content. Your original materials, including social-media content, should be copyrighted. You are likely going to have more than one trademark. It is not one trademark and then you are done. Every valuable thing you launch should be protected.

Rachel: So you would protect frameworks too?

Wani: One hundred percent. Your framework is what gives people transformation. The name of the framework can be trademarked. The actual framework—the original steps, materials, and substance—can be copyrighted. You want both protections.

People should understand that the law can be on their side with intellectual-property protection and infringement. For example, with a registered trademark, if someone infringes on it and you win in court, you may be entitled to enhanced damages and to recover the profits they made from using your mark.

With copyright, your work is protected once you create and publish it, but if you want to sue for copyright infringement, you need a copyright registration. My advice is: register it all.

Rachel: My dad has a business in the U.S. that manufactures air dryers. He says companies in China knock off their products, and he feels like there is nothing they can do because the companies are in China.

Wani: He can register in China too. It can be costly, but you should register in the United States and in the countries where most of your clients and audience are located.

Look at where people are watching you, where your customers live, or where your top podcast downloads are coming from. Those markets are showing interest in what you are building, even if you are not formally launching there yet. You may need to protect your work in those countries as well.

I have registrations in the United States and in the European Union, including France, because that is where I am based.

Rachel: That is so interesting. What is one final piece of advice you have for our audience?

Wani: From a business perspective, even if you are a solopreneur working by yourself, treat your business like Microsoft. Have your contracts. Have a lawyer. Cross your T’s and dot your I’s.

And spiritually, all of us receive a call at some point to live a different version of ourselves—to live the life we are actually called to live. Most people receive the call but never answer it.

For those of us who do answer, it will be messy. And that is okay. It is part of the process, because it is not even ultimately about you. It is about the people God has put you here to serve.

If I had never gone to Paris, I would not be having this conversation with you. I would not have done a TEDx talk. I would not be speaking, sharing, or writing books. I would have spent my entire life drafting contracts and filing trademark applications. That would have been playing very small.

Rachel: I love it. Where can we connect with you?

Wani: You can find me on LinkedIn under Wani Iris Manly, on Facebook, and on Instagram at @thelovelywani. Or just Google me—I am all over the place.

Rachel: We will put everything in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here, Wani. I really appreciate it.

Wani: Thank you for having me. I loved it.